July 14, 2016

Developer Marketing Best Practices [Video]

In 2014, Jeff sat down with Apigee’s Scott Regan at Apigee’s I Love APIs conference and created this video, which touches on many key elements of Developer Marketing Best Practices. While the video not brand new, neither are Jeff and Scott, and the principles discussed are timeless. Neither Jeff nor Scott are with the same companies now, but they remain just as smart about this stuff.

Jeff & Scott have known each other for a long time … so this developer marketing best practices discussion is definitely casual, direct and enjoyable. Check it out here:

Here’s the transcript of these developer marketing best practices, thanks to YouTube’s magic and vaguely accurate transcription service. It’s not really even close to what we said, so it’s worth watching the 38 minutes. I’ve left most of the inaccuracies for comedic effect.

0:02

well welcome I’m Scott Regan with Apigee

0:05

and we are here at the island APIs 2014 converts

0:09

in San Francisco and today I’m delighted to have

0:13

I Jeff Hadfield I jet to CXL a developer media

0:17

anti Jeff and I work together for for many years

0:21

on Jeff but you been in the developer arena

0:24

for a long time a long time yeah

0:28

it started even in the early nineties with were perfect magazines back then

0:33

yeah I was more macro developers and through the years have one but Visual

0:36

Basic

0:37

Java web desktop to the broader range client/server

0:41

over the last for the twenty-five years networks now the technologies change

0:45

but I still work in sort of a a publishing cents to help

0:48

marketers reach developers through these publishing vehicles

0:52

in a way that helps developers understand the value that marketers

0:55

bring with the product or service

0:57

or yeah well that is a huge topic here the conference is that

1:01

we had were surrounded by lots of people from all kinds of companies

1:05

and the thing to have in common is I can you are getting

1:08

is already is baby to reach developers so I

1:12

someone with your experience I you know there’s a lot of hot question around 2i

1:17

know how r developers different how do you on

1:21

any bill strategies and programs to drive

1:24

drive adoption right yeah I don’t know the answer to that really is just the

1:27

internationalist an hour

1:29

not really hey we’ve got a friend that their rightly held a writer has a light

1:33

up wrong

1:34

rap or snack out bring those cupcakes or so

1:37

I think the I think the court thing that

1:40

that it’s really easy for a marketer to forget about his

1:44

as we see what’s happening on the news we

1:47

we will look at tech practice and the other website have a tendency with a

1:51

token vision developing a close your eyes and think about these guys or

1:54

in their early twenties there you now living in basically something looks like

1:57

a frat house

1:58

they’re all this kind according to be the next the next consumer Africa and

2:02

those guys exist

2:04

but they’re tiny percentage in have who will developers are so I think about

2:08

who is a developer really developers look a lot like we’d

2:11

they look a lot like you know you who are watching this

2:14

there did guys who have a job and the really good at doing development kinda

2:18

stuff they were personally skill set the matches at

2:21

realistically most developers are programs in an enterprise Daves

2:25

yeah and increasing they’re not focused on this one technologies that which

2:29

makes it more challenging as a marketer

2:31

in some way yet most developers I think it’s also the really that they’re

2:34

working on more than one project they’re working on

2:37

mobile undecided they’re doing lots of different things but to

2:40

here’s a look at going to be very myopic on it our vision and wanna

2:44

developer looks like we’re kinda company they work for

2:47

on it when he learned about how

2:50

like the tone and you use to market to developers how was that

2:54

deferred then consumer broad-based consumer marketing

2:58

said that’s an excellent question to the first thing to remember is look if

3:01

you’re doing something that same day

3:03

consumers for he got a ship your brain around to being b2b marketing

3:07

the really like to apply for a variance on b2b marketing so what you gonna get

3:11

that in your head to be great

3:13

how do I as a marketer get myself in the head of my ideal customer

3:18

a lot and that can be a challenge for us because we did some research on this

3:22

developer media last year and I i’ve got some long

3:25

and and detailed stuff we can look into it we sorta learn these guys if you they

3:30

take a personality test

3:31

are like a tiny fraction a broader population

3:35

suggested the flat-out odds are we can’t think like that

3:38

help for the personality traits and getting to your answer I swear yeah it’s

3:42

great to have our stuff like

3:43

and and you probably know a developer right at you’re telling them you can

3:47

take

3:47

I’ve got the greatest idea I’ve research that i’ve spent three weeks bringing

3:51

this out

3:51

no go that fine I’m gonna look into it figure it out myself

3:55

right to some others personality traits you think you have to keep in mind the

3:58

market to develop

3:59

the first and foremost the diff people so when you build your marketing plan

4:03

but as the still human nature right you gonna have to show them something many

4:07

times for them to

4:08

to hear right now going to come from a with you have to understand it

4:11

then they’re gonna want to get their hands on developers are particularly

4:15

strongly biased towards getting that touch your technology or your service

4:19

absolutely before the lever about yeah that kinda key

4:23

are gonna come to describe the voice who’s right

4:26

need to be authentic and transparent right I don’t try me something you’re

4:29

not

4:29

absolutely right and be consistent yeah because

4:33

they have a really short trigger in terms of

4:37

if I want to get the answer or want to take action

4:40

I need to do it now are moving on to the next yeah so

4:43

those kinda transfer understanding and core marketing

4:47

being transparent an authentic and being yeah

4:50

resort key the total smart to really you’re talking about people that are

4:53

very

4:54

a logical layer any deal on a concrete tangible

4:57

and on in people offers up in front of them

5:00

you know what are the things that II in and we we

5:03

we say the developers just hate the traditional cheesy

5:06

lucky marketing they hate bender pitch over their

5:09

inches and he said that authentic voice

5:13

authentic offers is is are really important

5:16

let me ask you on what do you think

5:20

it are the motivations the developers have on me

5:24

18 search for take you up on offer with me when you trying to accomplish

5:28

that’s an excellent question because it helps marketers answering a question

5:31

apps market position the product to the services

5:34

yeah and start to figure out how to why do we talk guys back in the magazine

5:38

days

5:39

we would always say I write when we’re writing something on the cop it’s gonna

5:43

bring somebody

5:43

and get magazine we say we have to ask by Maria what’s in it for me

5:48

and that’s what you’re asking a friend like when a developer looks the things

5:51

they say

5:52

what’s in it for me yeah and what they need to figure out is all right what is

5:56

it

5:56

saving because developers care about the think anything’s

5:59

we would in any kinda b2b thank and resetting the time

6:03

or money yes but they’re sort of another metal layer on top of that

6:07

wright also is it kinda cool yep how am I gonna look like

6:11

the the we like to joke about it are Mike might be of any

6:15

right I can look like the guy yeah if Mart in this area if I do this

6:19

you know so they’re motivated same things anyway would be but there’s a

6:22

metal layer on top that’s actually I wanna love cooling from my peers

6:26

yet I wanna be market guide the next user group yep

6:29

I want to get this to market faster and then through the

6:33

the business layer there’s a business where an operation flared make it a

6:37

little more complex

6:38

say in the last few years and it used to be before yet because if you’re an

6:42

enterprise developer you’re playing with say

6:45

a mobile app on the side yeah your more motivated by

6:48

the consumer opportunity to make some money off at

6:51

yesterday alright I’m not gonna try and figure out how to

6:55

build G of anything data here if I just consumers API to give me the maid

7:00

I can magically get the business benefits yes

7:04

yeah so i think is really important to I to

7:07

I completely agree everyone restate developer motivation some things we

7:10

haven’t changed in

7:12

twenty years which is developers I

7:15

them they re it will coupon offer

7:18

if they can say time from I if you move their business model

7:23

there’s a way for them to make money and I

7:26

you know what I’ve a I’m what I think about that too is

7:30

they really want to be positioning themselves for the next great job so

7:34

they’re interested in building at three

7:35

are reusable skills and I think and you know we’ve

7:39

me we’ve seen over the years many efforts that they’ll developers because

7:42

they’re

7:43

someone about educational dated in a proprietary language is our proprietary

7:48

on tools are or platforms whereas some things to take off maybe

7:52

I you know developer looked at it and I need you telling myself to get a great

7:56

job

7:56

my next rage on in this company or another company up

8:00

have those kinds a educational opportunity that’s exactly right

8:04

limited room it reminds me the second thing I ask if if they had a goal which

8:07

is there’s an operational component that they didn’t used to think about

8:10

try to client service like I’m gonna build this thrown over the wall at it.

8:13

figured out

8:14

yeah that’s not the case anymore there’s a couple dimensions that right one is

8:17

the way the app runs is so intertwine

8:21

with how it’s gonna be hosting out can be delivered you can extract

8:24

yes and the second piece is it builds on exactly what you just said

8:27

there much less inclined to allow better lock

8:31

there’s way more yeah for standards in universal any races

8:35

and so they’re going to be designing their app to work and a whole bunch

8:38

different technological environments be hosting

8:40

yes K at I’ll take a different tack provider that’s right

8:44

when we first met back in the early 90’s I was working very very large platform

8:48

vendor

8:48

that where we you could you could only you could

8:52

think yourself zoning developer community there’s a lock in your

8:55

creating

8:55

by there so many choices now to that to developers have storage technologies and

9:00

tools and vendors

9:01

everything very fragmented and I

9:04

you know often were asked by

9:07

people who want to get into developer outreach their saying how how can

9:11

can you get me developers I wanna bill to commit michael my community and my

9:15

developers and

9:16

it’s important understand their eye toward about do your dollars a tonne

9:19

part choice I’ll as their options

9:23

have increased greatly that’s exactly right often have increased and

9:26

technology to increase

9:27

yellow we watch we do our regular surveys

9:30

what are you using my Technologies Inc we’ve seen the

9:33

number of technologies languages Papa framework Elizabeth

9:37

increased dramatic yes arm literally no one who does

9:42

just one yes committed to just one platform vendor and in many cases to

9:45

their credit the platform vendors have made it to the

9:48

their platforms are more and/or operable other tools and I think the other thing

9:53

when people come to me and they say hey I want to build a community

9:56

I think that’s really cool how long you have and how many millions do you have

10:00

because

10:01

it’s really hard to do yeah at this point there such

10:04

established mass in the developer community

10:07

really hard to find a lot of communities that are built around a particular

10:10

technology

10:11

absolutely I’m having we have found that we work with when are in our group and

10:14

when we love them they’re awesome

10:16

but they’re very there’s a lot of technologies

10:20

in that and it’s very hard I think for any but the largest companies to build

10:24

any kind of critical mass in a developer community with this one having

10:28

yes that is a lot of people building private APIs

10:32

there’s no reason you shouldn’t have at least some kinda

10:35

private discussion area for your partners with your private APIs

10:38

and have your technical team interacting with them that’s a very cough

10:41

and time-efficient solution for supporting part

10:44

yes but that’s not really a broad outreach Yahoo

10:48

well let me ask you someone comes to you and says

10:52

on I get all this I understand this it

10:55

see a choice is yet how do I stand out how can I with my offering maybe I kitty

11:00

I am a decent kinda

11:01

talk inter or product I wanna miss developers how can I stand on the proud

11:07

but when you don’t first I think I think there’s two things

11:11

first i think is understanding exactly what your value proposition

11:15

sounds kinda business the

11:17

marketing a and an MBA but I don’t mean it yeah

11:20

I it’s like anything else if you don’t have a unique angle on

11:23

what youre talking to developers about the can see right through that you said

11:26

earlier smart

11:27

yeah and they like to be marketed to but if you’ve managed to solve a problem in

11:31

a unique way they would love to hear more about

11:33

first understanding what’s your unique value proposition and how do you tell a

11:37

story

11:38

system yeah right and the second one is having a standout

11:41

this is gonna sound it might sound a little bit cynical and I don’t mean it

11:45

to

11:46

when but I think one of the challenges with building a developer community

11:50

or building a developer out reach program his understanding that you

11:54

in it for the long term so simply committing

11:57

executing consistently unity scale back all the areas you want to execute on

12:03

just execute consistently in a few key areas

12:05

that in itself is going to make you stand out because they’re so many people

12:09

in common say

12:10

I’m gonna try this if it doesn’t work in ninety days you’re gonna move on to

12:12

something else

12:13

yeah I think you really know something here because what what what I see a a

12:16

lot

12:17

is all hopes and dreams are pinned on one big event

12:20

I had to say and more often than not attack I’m going to act on a ninety days

12:24

and that’s our strategy

12:26

and I it I agree that it’s more having a

12:30

relentless cadence doing things two or three times a month

12:34

you don’t have to spend a lot of money to do it it so it’s a time commitment

12:37

for sure

12:38

and it’s hard to find people who want to go to all these definitive answer

12:42

I or to be doing things had a

12:45

at a relentless pace but its very much about having

12:49

sustaining strategy you know as

12:52

more important to watch strategy as I completely agree EE that compound in

12:56

effect over time

12:57

you have to you have to really be willing to do something every day

13:01

that’s right so so we come not to very act of praise

13:04

yes I have a lot of people will say USA here’s how we wanna

13:08

this is the hackathon is gonna be the big thing we have a launch this

13:11

at holy cow this is gonna be this launcher but his grandmother

13:14

and any one of those things I love ants is a challenge I think to build your

13:19

whole strategy and whatever metric

13:20

chose yet right so you know we recommend

13:24

several that’s right first is make sure that your

13:27

doing your marketing efforts consistently

13:31

right we we you can talk about the buyers journey even talk about the final

13:34

anyone other but thinking about that buyers are thinking

13:37

first I gotta be aware that you with this

13:41

and i wanna start moving towards a bit awareness and understanding

13:44

not only do you exist but what’s your uniqueness to me

13:47

one what quite unique value you bring to me yeah

13:51

and you keep repeating was after time and two things will happen one

13:55

people start hearing and second what developers are doing everything you want

14:00

them to do

14:01

all the same time a recent study thing hey guess what

14:04

enterprise a ap cycles have totally impressed now

14:08

now the 18-month like okay so what does that tell me as a marketer right thing

14:12

I gotta be talking about this stuff all the time because they may be interested

14:16

they may not be able to check for months still absolutely

14:19

right so the second system yeah as hell you know on

14:23

content marketing yet its up

14:26

I it’s the Battle term for sure last

14:29

34 years and I think it’s

14:32

its may be thinking all along that in the developer rena

14:36

now you’ve actually even to ensure very long time

14:39

when it when a client here is her asks about content marketing

14:43

how do you get started I can you think about it strategy for that

14:46

thanks for your question i’d it’s fun it’s a content marketing I

14:49

you know it’s easy to toward a lean back in my character what what I was an

14:52

editor his facts right

14:54

because in a and liable for mobile phones have my feet wide open it was it

14:58

was it with really hard to send those mags out

15:01

stone tablet by dinosaur what I was doing it but on

15:04

in many ways a threesome with the key thing about content marketing

15:08

remember what it does right so went fishing for that buyers here

15:12

we’re starting over here with awareness and understanding and

15:14

some engagement and the developers case that engagement of unmanned

15:18

get my hands on it let me try right and then from there they go to adoption any

15:22

hope that they’ll

15:23

look back and bring new war recommend it to anyone awesome thanks

15:27

is important to view content marketing as through an accelerant

15:31

for the whole process or accelerates the process and it also

15:34

build trust which is super keen to develop yeah its it

15:39

you can even you can’t overstate the importance but the key thing about that

15:43

content marketing is

15:44

understanding now what its

15:47

what your goal is to understand the context right now so

15:50

with that contacted buyers jury how to trick celebrates

15:53

thing it builds trust when you try to build metrics around that

15:56

relates it clicks they don’t really lineup rights they have to think or

16:01

water michael’s this are and how does that serve

16:04

has a for accelerate

16:07

or inform the entire marketing process yeah and you much impact of a little

16:11

better and are you an ironic remark on this

16:13

Bangla if you’ve got a piece of content let’s say you’ve got this

16:17

great opportunity telling people how to build a ship makes up some random

16:21

example yeah

16:21

how to build some payment strategy

16:25

us choose a random example with relevant to today’s news right track

16:28

I have six best practices

16:32

for mobile payments I’m gonna write them all into this thirty thousand work white

16:35

paper and I’m gonna send it out there

16:37

everyone who is interested is gonna read this I’m gonna educate the world and

16:41

that saw

16:42

and sure you should go ahead right but that’s a lot of work yeah absolutely

16:46

so you have to look at that they are realistically

16:50

how is my ideal customer even even my current customer want to retain

16:56

continue without trust with how my gonna make sure that they see that

16:59

yeah right to you gonna chop and the smaller blog post you gonna chop it into

17:03

standby

17:03

adjustable peace you might even bill a little while but our interview series

17:07

about those things

17:09

and the next time you’re at your User Conference or some other conference

17:13

wielding a weapon are you you may bill a weapon all around is kinda

17:17

the nation’s dancer content marketing wanna reach

17:20

developers are gonna reach my audience by giving them content

17:24

that helps helps them meet their goal educating themselves making

17:27

continue to enhance their their skills in their careers

17:30

in a in there i doing and

17:34

couple things first is I can reuse I can I can take that same content and I need

17:38

it

17:39

repurpose it for the different ways that people are going to be

17:42

consuming and see me naked be in today’s world all kinds channels from SlideShare

17:46

Twitter

17:48

blogs to I you know to

17:52

my paper some people what God had a white paper webinars video

17:56

on let me ask especially for someone and it was a developer media

18:01

content marketing advertising do I just need one with the others I have both had

18:06

a

18:07

how to the play person each other for a

18:10

a good developer outreach strategy I’m how we can savor them and I think

18:14

they educate each other right tickling the developer market on

18:19

you no matter how great your content is right you’re still going to be speaking

18:23

to that audience that has

18:25

again and vision that buyers journey you can also look at the file

18:28

right i mean if you go to North engagement yet there are fewer people

18:32

who have engaged with you when you want to get the broadest possible

18:35

Ranger developers who would be interested yeah so if they are how do I

18:39

get the word out

18:39

that advertise and this totally cool to base your creative in your advertising

18:44

around reaching engaging with the

18:47

out that it doesn’t will be given a teacher year offers really good but it’s

18:50

really just a way to reach people

18:52

a threat to back and think about what that content about very similar when you

18:55

add content development

18:56

as to how you do your marketing

18:58

messaging graphic understanding your customers understanding what their needs

19:01

are number one

19:02

the number to thank all right how do we uniquely fill those needs in this thing

19:06

are with those things in mind how do we think about

19:09

topics that we’re going to are going to reach yeah they can be

19:13

one of topics they I can be perennial topics right maybe

19:16

maybe every year you know around tax time

19:19

your service helps developer solve some problems there so you’ve got that

19:23

perennial every year

19:24

were kinda touching on from the tactics but look yeah

19:28

have a schedule yeah figure out our I’ve got exclusive content well I don’t just

19:33

throw that out there hope people are gonna see a right yeah like you said

19:36

I’m reworked to fit very very different media you too

19:40

SlideShare a blog post all these other things yeah and then also

19:44

I need to promote that and repeated way though you know I’ve talked about that

19:48

before

19:48

not only through through paid media as they call on advertising

19:52

but also through a I’ve also got some people to commit to me

19:56

that they want to hear from me moon and we were trying to you

19:59

yeah whether Twitter or just a fee

20:02

yeah LinkedIn or Facebook whatever that that’s all that really is a of

20:06

up for Facebook page whatever in there there they want your updates

20:10

both faith Facebook is actually probably be

20:14

the a classic example there because you’re reaches really crap

20:17

unless you pay increasingly yeah so you and I were joking earlier right even

20:21

when you like somebody

20:22

they may have to tell you something three or four times before you actually

20:25

it’s right

20:26

yeah so actor applies in the social media great you were saying that we know

20:30

here sitting in the parking here you can add a business cuz misconception

20:33

everybody sees everything you

20:34

the broadcast and I in reality it sucks

20:38

exact opposite him inside cutback house I can’t say

20:42

he he we tweet all this Tweet four times because

20:46

you’ll never %um such a small segment of the audience actually

20:50

he has exposure to that that is a content so

20:54

don’t be shy repackaging at the same

20:57

content-type content has to be something that’s

21:00

about them not about about you helps outright

21:03

for any can the sound really daunting and some at it is from work

21:07

but some things like the social media promotion you can get

21:11

were fairly inexpensive tools to schedule tweaked out and then the same

21:14

thing on the advertising K

21:16

you’re investing %uh you make sure you choose a partner and I you know we we’re

21:19

one

21:20

yet that when you do that advertising optimizes the placement you doing for

21:24

results yep

21:25

garth do that but you know watching to make sure Hey look make it so I have to

21:29

put a little effort

21:30

possible let me ask API teams are after having the company and their small teams

21:35

their dad they may they may have one or two

21:39

I evangelists or

21:42

I your Stephanie pretty lean on how we get the content

21:46

you know a two-person team and Ike and now I’ve got this

21:50

cunt plotted and United feed how do I

21:53

how do I do that reproduce produce that had a white person tricks for

21:57

that is like that that’s the million-dollar question really and I

22:00

hear this from

22:01

literally every company PBS start up to a multi-national total it’s always a

22:06

a a little a little team %um in many cases

22:09

has literally sea level endorsement mmm but doesn’t have

22:13

relieve the the head count if you want to yet

22:16

to get some other stuff down to the first thing is be coming

22:20

insanely meticulous and capturing every possible idea you had

22:24

right it’s like if I’m do on a phone call with a client

22:27

i’m talking about. things makes a notorious record your side of the

22:31

conversation

22:32

yes and make sure you do that Absalon

22:35

if you’re going to speak it well if you have an example if you’re right there’s

22:39

nothing wrong with a hack

22:40

top but if you’re going to invest your tens of thousands of dollars and act

22:44

upon

22:44

you damn well better get content at so capture even if you’re catching on with

22:49

your phone

22:49

yeah so you see these conversations having after that

22:53

when you sit there and talk to the individual participants

22:56

the optimal weather challenges and when they do the presentations

22:59

yeah after those right get all the content you can and that

23:03

you know we have some facilities to help with our clients with that you can’t do

23:07

that that’s awesome laugh but

23:08

you know contact me if you wanna help you say louis there are some ways

23:13

even if you need to do it there are relatively inexpensive services that

23:16

will do transcripts

23:18

yeah to there was a greater for trolls or

23:21

efforts will help you added a big chunk a video yes a little better I mean

23:25

once you get those system is going to become law do you think you have to

23:28

become insane about kayaking

23:30

I completely agree I think I’m you

23:33

can double check even years yeah I think about your your product manager on it

23:38

technical team years no lack of banter that happening internally

23:42

right between engineers between the people who hear technologists

23:46

and I you can harvest those

23:49

make an external conversations if we’re having all these pearls of wisdom PLO

23:53

what does it but going to do just that boat around inside our company lets

23:56

put them on our blog yeah and executives that are really

23:59

that really busy go sit down the corner right away paper but you can

24:03

pretty easily just you know put him on a

24:06

put them on their cell phone while driving into work which is what we do

24:09

want to raise awareness

24:10

and I think you’re right you know i i think you hit on something

24:13

really important I want to bring up that is developers relate

24:17

really well to other developers yeah so when you’re you know the piks

24:21

in many cases their engineers and that of absolutely cuz that’s the kinda

24:25

person developers can relate to

24:26

so don’t be shy in fact not only don’t be shy but I’d recommend

24:30

yeah try and put your people up front because when you become a corporate

24:34

faith yet on the face

24:37

it’s not as effective as cleaning those herbert

24:40

relationships with your engineers yes helps you you know we can back up and

24:45

talk about when you going on to

24:46

what should you choose your point of view you got a boy standing as in the

24:49

kind of things but naturally those come from having your people on the team

24:52

gay that’s right I think you know if your here the marketing guy abit in

24:56

already kinda developer outreach team you can do you want two things you can

25:00

just freak out you’re the only person in struggle with getting all the content

25:04

where you can make everybody on your team a marketing person and looking

25:07

find creative ways to harvest and accelerate production up there already

25:11

very smart pots

25:13

I into externally and it’d energy in a chance

25:16

and on you can you needs here earlier but you just need to

25:20

create a machine become self-sustaining and

25:24

I you know once you get the real authentic

25:27

mines I’ve your organization held

25:31

front you know some people really resonate with that and I

25:34

its peak that authenticity the developers demand so that’s

25:37

that’s exactly right back you reminded me she said that one thing I hear line

25:41

is what we’re concerned we’re gonna say something that is in line with for the

25:44

corporate

25:44

standard yeah line and number one

25:48

as a developer group often you can fly under the radar which is cool the second

25:51

thing actually I think

25:53

while developers are super smart yet

25:56

they’re also very forgiving as long as you’re transparent

25:59

that’s right so you suppose I can you like go crap that was the wrong thing

26:03

to come out and meet me and I had met around waving oh hey this is the real

26:06

early

26:07

I’ve done that before and when you explain day we thought we were gonna

26:10

have this feature in the next version via

26:12

for example yes and it turned out that is what got into a granite

26:15

engineering challenges the more like this so we’re putting that off a little

26:19

bit developers ago

26:20

our understand why it is that I really wanted that and I respect your

26:23

engineering decision there

26:24

or you probably are likely going about your comment thing with how I would

26:28

but still your respect you for doing it yes we can def we fly fly under the

26:31

radar to some degree

26:32

I also you know a lot of I who about getting about the top 200 most local

26:37

valuable global brands

26:38

you know the PR department in these in these

26:41

gabrielle’s you know they’re really protective and

26:45

often their their PR roomie their job sometimes to keep people from writing

26:50

about

26:50

right you and it’s hard you wanna make sure that weakens the meeting developers

26:54

you really do have to get out there me and be proactive in reaching

26:58

on the net is way different to developers in your department

27:02

part said are of unity following is your blog in any

27:06

me certain I

27:09

yeah online magazine are concerned conference nothing together and do it

27:12

right but like you said earlier

27:14

the challenge now is it harder to find yeah

27:17

there are as many communities pilgrimages

27:20

as there used to be because people are going a whole bunch of different things

27:23

so immediately switch gears on which is someone comes to you and says I wanna

27:28

reach developers

27:29

I how do you help them

27:32

really Nero in her hone in on us us like grouper segment

27:36

that up them that makes it makes more manageable for them to

27:41

it start so it’s a really interesting question because

27:45

its so different depending on the on the products eg right to the first thing I

27:51

think that

27:52

that is a key is understanding want your business model around us right and you

27:55

see this

27:55

yeah with the API for building I think that’s awesome would love to help people

27:59

maybe I

27:59

what’s your plan for this are you making it easier for existing

28:03

partner to work with you are you hoping for broader widespread adoption

28:07

Micah per user per month per transaction fee

28:11

are you just trying to get better platform adoption what are your business

28:14

goals around

28:15

accounting given that think anything are here’s what we recommend this is kind of

28:20

cool thing

28:21

about about the way marketing is change

28:24

saying a lot yep even 5-10 years because I always

28:27

where up and down human nature is not change from a lani

28:31

right still we still all act an enlightened self-interest right so you

28:35

gotta tell me what’s in it for me

28:37

pop the things that we do when we try and communicate people picking it up for

28:42

sale

28:43

we don’t have to go on TV on a broad shop

28:46

weakens we can just say look I’m gonna market my content and my offerings

28:51

way for it creates created demand from the people who are my ideal audience

28:57

anyway down with and it for a self-selected

29:00

base on the fact that I position my product on my part in a particular way

29:05

Tony when we talk about targeting what we’ve found is

29:08

the way technology has evolved and the way people are more inclined to look for

29:12

content that was interesting to them

29:14

yeah by understand who your ideal audiences

29:17

and targeting in marketing the content around that this

29:21

to some degree are a little more natural Excel selecting either through their

29:24

own interest yeah or through the sophistication in the marketplace that’s

29:28

a really important point I think you know counter-intuitively

29:31

what we’ve seen is the more targeted at your

29:34

marketing is the more than Joe brought a successful whereas misstated

29:39

data these I made in I make every year which is

29:42

when we come out and say okay I got my next big thing

29:46

we are going to everybody thats you can do that your efforts to defuse

29:51

and your in messages related

29:53

going anywhere and I think that’s akin has what we’ve seen you never really

29:56

clear picture for your ideal customer is

29:59

build your product and you’re messing around yet but don’t don’t get here

30:04

picks up wrapped around the axle in your marketing yet but I think how much

30:07

find out exactly I that techno just talking about offers

30:11

yeah those guys those guys and girls will be attracted to the thing here

30:15

here that’s right person in the world you guys gets really important because

30:18

you could have

30:19

you would come out on day one with 58 a lot yeah it’s overwhelming message

30:24

I think we’ve seen a lot more success lasting success with strategies that may

30:30

release ATI’s slowly for certain segment

30:34

and then than bills also tell bowling

30:37

in strategy I think as I’m gonna start with this one niche

30:40

and then bridge over to other niches as we get our machine

30:43

rolling but you have to do yet segment as you’re saying earlier

30:48

you get on this this is influencer community

30:51

yeah you know there’s a there’s a certain number folks that

30:54

I can help you when you to group leaders or in certain things and looking at work

30:59

on network on the ground which

31:02

now I want to ask you I as well YouTube also been involved in a bit

31:07

been involved with the the air the air gamely online

31:11

just yes indication and distribution advertising products and

31:14

and accounted then you also been involved in putting

31:17

together developer event so again I’m spinning about

31:21

program what about us I go online to go all around game 2i

31:25

what we should the answer to all these questions as always

31:29

how much commitment D out and of equipment is

31:33

a code word for budget I right and I committed

31:37

yeah that’s right after I have tried no yet if you don’t have a lot about to do

31:41

the events are not a mother of two effective way to yeah

31:44

10 what events that might happen bondar even just like a usergroup

31:48

visit they can be great ways to get you as a marketer or the tech team

31:52

yes in front of your customer your potential past it likes you again and

31:56

former content material on your product planning

31:59

their awesome event yes comes at this helping you in turn

32:02

yeah but which I think had one market Broadway they’re not the best way

32:06

they’re not but you have to do right so the ground game is essential but it’s

32:11

sorta

32:11

once you crossed a certain level love ability to commit

32:15

time report yeah and you mentioned you know it is an influencer marketing

32:19

fascinating aspect up be developer space

32:23

because back in the old days when you work for an unnamed major platform

32:26

vendor

32:27

is right here there were a lot of I went a lot there was almost like a half or

32:31

maybe 15-20

32:32

key influencers and in there wasn’t much if you get

32:35

there are you like that still mmm but not as many as there used to be back in

32:40

the old days

32:40

you have a couple reasons for that one is the market is fragmented it’s matured

32:44

and it’s been

32:46

I mean I hate to say this out loud spent almost 20 years

32:49

something with that way yeah and the developing markets change its prime

32:53

minister actually so I think developers with those guys but they’re just as

32:57

likely to listen to their peers

32:59

yep and our personality studies suggest they’re also just as likely

33:03

even if they listen to these guys these guys bring it to their attention

33:06

but they’re still for technical track before the committee yeah is an

33:09

important point I think I’m

33:11

now I all the offline world be the online world

33:16

in an online world is really about reinforcing the relationships are you

33:19

really still have to make an offline world so

33:21

midday if you have just one different not the other

33:24

yeah I’m and day one thing we discuss a while back is that

33:30

it but you can come down a budget and often is a

33:33

hell what GP Red any easier to plug into somebody else’s community

33:37

somebody else’s machine then have to spin up around think so

33:41

should you always try to create your own events that’s a lot of work and a lot of

33:45

money

33:45

and and I miss my been kinda thing you don’t want to do that often

33:49

but its pretty approachable to I

33:53

plug in your partner’s events like you know great how come on series at AT&T

33:57

on Thursday do 30 events a year and on

34:01

as lot there’s a few like that you can you can get into their stream

34:06

and sponsor for for pretty low cost the point being that

34:09

is that you don’t always have to set up everything yourself you can

34:12

right you can provide quite what you do you’re providing content

34:16

other people search programs any Nikon to reach their

34:20

developers are there on its threat but it can be a cost-effective way

34:24

really for what turned out to be qualitative market research: exactly

34:28

oh yeah me Mia that we said a few things out

34:31

bonds that are contrary and I think I 11 last year but

34:35

pack it was a fantastic for be back in a great for getting some but

34:39

they may not be fantastic for I developer marketing best practices

34:43

ending up with maps that you can showcase because

34:47

you know just doesn’t or prototype think people building under the gun

34:51

may not look anything the thing that’s more polished nickel in

34:54

the iMac on yeah and it’s like what we get it right idea

34:57

you I talk I don’t know how to say this

35:01

I’m trying to think that polite the odds are pretty good that you’ve got an exact

35:05

come to you and said I wanna hack

35:06

yeah so your job as the guy I’m happy I came this AM

35:10

how why make this work at a way to bring together

35:13

you know my team to get I need at this

35:17

because it’s not gonna feed into any my real matrix

35:20

yes but the exact want yes and then you say okay

35:24

and you know why I need to get that besides that you did mention I even add

35:27

on to that area

35:28

make sure that you then try and get some other corporate PR teams yes

35:32

momentum to

35:33

back to that they are right let’s build you know what going to take a few

35:37

meetings with the RTS

35:38

but figure out what do we do around this Henry reinforces messaging things and

35:42

how do we come back and say hey

35:44

you know the team was so excited to do this with Alice momentum of it this and

35:47

I even build up six months worth

35:49

PR plan yes is a good segue because on E

35:54

I had a to give one 1p something and devices someone who is just starting

35:59

in developer outreach that perhaps the most important thing to do is

36:03

into doing what you said is you have to make sure expectations

36:07

are in line we’re I developer marketing best practices

36:11

with the strategy yes perhaps the biggest

36:14

pitfall in these programs is this they can generate a lot of excitement

36:18

internally company but no one’s really sure what to expect

36:22

and if you’re running wannabes developer outreach programs

36:25

I think it’s really critical that you create seven metrics

36:28

and evangelize widely

36:31

you know what does success look like for us you know it’s guess what’s not going

36:34

to be

36:35

overnight it’s a slow ramp and on

36:38

unit and you know it’s not like we’re gonna happen 10,000 out here in first

36:42

first month at around even if you do you probably don’t need your own app store

36:46

that’s right he’s equity so I mean how do you how do you tell your

36:49

here people to work with to approach just that the net excited

36:54

well kinda we talk about the we think the potential market as we’ve got some

36:58

standard here’s what we expect that response to be in it

37:01

but ultimately we we trying to help them manage expectations

37:05

for the people that they have to report yelling and given its budget

37:08

this is kinda the Rangers customer acquisition hmm

37:11

cost we’ve seen and you’re better off again investing in the overall

37:16

life cycle including retention that’s right and experience

37:19

and scoping the number maybe I what you’re doing more yes

37:22

initially and making your numbers lower and then building on like at that early

37:26

let us start with 50

37:27

let’s start with you 3 or one that we do really well

37:31

and let’s execute that consistently and a if I’ve got

37:34

100 guys by the end of the year doing this really well choosing a relatively

37:38

small number you in really good yeah absolutely it is a lot about

37:42

up managing expectations really yes and only work together to make big pieces

37:47

up apply to understand what success looks like and and make sure that we

37:51

when you’ve made it clear to everyone and that we’re working with

37:54

but anyway listen jeff is always a pleasure and magaziner talking perhaps

37:58

we get there go back and forth for another hour but thanks for coming to

38:01

the conference

38:02

thank you jeff Hadfield

38:05

I a great person to talk to and work with on developer outreach strategies